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subject: Evo, vs crea,

497 replies on 34 pages. most recent reply: Mon, Aug 27 8:06 PM by cactus2

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MrStankbody

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 03-Sep-03 20:28   »» 
wow. i realy agree with evilgoatfiend, my exact thoughts.

picture this you evoled and are one of the first human/monkey type creature that can think about greater things they getting sum bannanas. now think were would your think u came frome? or better yet have u ever seen ur parents lie to you because they did know the correct answer?wat if your human monkey child asked you 1 day "farther/mother where did we come from". well i tell u this u wouldnt say "the monkeys"


i belive that religion in all froms has evolved along side those who didnt know and or needed control.

if ther was no religion we would become as civilised as we are. we woiuld be living in caves or at least not in citys. (could you imagine living in a city with no rules?)

althogh i think its wrong about how we and everything came about without it we wouldnt have come about this far.

evilgoatfiend

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 03-Sep-03 21:27   »» 
As for more proof neuroscientists have found part of the brain that lights up when it is thinking about it and at peace with God. Scientific-Christian connection. The only difference is aetheist look at it as God is a figment we created ourselves but Christians look at it as Gods way of revealing himself to the world. Same concept can be applied to evolution.

honestabe123

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 25-Sep-03 06:44   »» 
wht yall exactly debating about

DaddyPlaid

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 25-Sep-03 19:30   »» 
Interesting thread. First post here.

I believe in what is real. Science rules my life and decisions. There is always a chance involved, but I'm not a strong believer in destiny or fate or that God has a devine plan for me. I am in control of what I do and responsible for my own actions and outcomes.

When things go good, I don't thank God. And
I do not blame God like some people do.

The whole evolution timeline debated here isn't being looked at correctly.
A really good example for those who are still in grade school here and believe what their parents tell them and have no free thought of their own is this:

Look at a 12 inch ruler....imagine this is how long the earth has been around.
Now look at the 11 7/8 mark....from there to the
end is how long humans have existed.

No evidence of evolution of any kind?
Wake up morons....adaptation is evolution!
Ever study fish?

Ever hear of common ancestor?
Read more here, includes list of evolution still going on:
http://www.vexen.co.uk/life/hom.html

What it all boils down to, is that we can debate until the end of time. Or until death for that matter and even so, chances are we still won't be given an answer.

It's what you believe in.



sodawhat

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 09-Oct-03 23:49   »» 
Hi I haven't been able to read all the posts but have read a good portion. I just wanted to put my two cents in. I do belive that we didn't evolve but rather were created. The truth is there are no hard facts either way. Studies do support adaptation and many feel this is enough. But I will not be swayed untill stronger evidince is presented. Why? Because even if evolution was correct where did the first life form come from. Scientists have never shown how that started. They have theories (as always in conection to this subject) but no proof. If you say it came from another planet you just move the location not the question... if they were able to create a single living cell from some ooze then that would be the end of that. But life is more than mechanics and processes. I am not looking for an argument just giving some food for thought. Keep thinking never stop I don't.

evilgoatfiend

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 10-Oct-03 00:39   »» 
Attuctuall scientists DO know where the first life form came from. They don't know exactly what it was, but they have found evidence that complex amino acids (proteins) and nucleic (sp?) acids (DNA) slowly increased in complexity and started to combine. Also they have found not just a couple humanoid skulls, but more than enough to trace development in all the stages between man and ape. I don't knoiw if you read the latest couple of posts but our consensus is BOTH.

evilgoatfiend

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 10-Oct-03 00:39   »» 
Actually*

Blueyoshi321

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Re: Evolution vs. creationism   posted: 11-Oct-03 01:07   »» 
I would just like to say a small thing. I'm not really doing much more than restating some things that have been said, but oh well.

Somewhere, someone posted that you would need a time machine to prove evolution (see different stages of it, I suppose). And often the evidence given for creationism is "the Bible says so". Furthermore, it has been stated that no one knows how accurate the Bible is - unless, as somebody said about evolution, it was written "by some guy two years ago" (or something like that). You would need a time machine to verify that the first copy of the Bible was the same as the current one (take it through time).

I love using people's arguments against them. :D :)

Sorry if I said something incorrectly about previous posts. I just read the whole thing and it's a lot to remember.

frodnonnag

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 15-Oct-03 16:49   »» 
yeesh, a touchy subject, last board i was at tore itself in two because of this.

in my opinion, creationisim hands down. there are too many facts that point to divinity vs randomness to ignore.


here are my findings/

god created species with the ability of variety, humans are a perfect example, we are all different shapes sizes and colors yet we are all one central design coded into our genes.

there was a study a long time ago that took moths and messed with their background(the color of the trees and stuff they landed on) and showed the ability of a dormant gene to become dominant, survival of the species depended on it. again on the variety but theme.

evolutions main theme, random mutations/accidents is in itself ludicrus. history has proved that these changes are harmful not helpful, the big bang therefore cannot have created an ordered existence so comparatively perfect to a infinite. random chance itself has obvious limits, (the classic % to flip a coin and have it land on its edge is an example) we can flip a coin over and over until oblivion and i will vow that it will never land on its edge. another proof of insaine complexity/perfection(for lack of a better term) is at a atomic level, the atom will always have a set design and cannot be changed.

my last arguement is in itself reason, if everything is by random chance then why does the laws of physics(imperfect as they are) remain laws, why does the sky remain the sky and why isint chaos insueing over things we know as facts, pushing an object one way tends to make it move in that direction. time itself is a puzzle, how did itself come to be and how come random effects cannot change it, predestiny is a fact, something most people cannot even begin to comprehend...

Blueyoshi321

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 15-Oct-03 20:15   »» 
I have some replies to make.

That thing with the moths, doesn't that help evolution? You see that animals can adapt to their surroundings, and that they don't remain the same for eternity (creationism's view). Oh, and that wasn't an experiment. There was a species of moth that lived in Britain, or something. The trees were white, so most of the moths were white - all the black ones were eaten and did not pass their genes on. Then there was the Industrial Revolution and the trees turned black with soot. Thus the black ones survived because they were not being eaten (too hard to see by predators).

Anyway, how do you know that a coin will never land on its edge? If you flip it infinitely many times, all possible outcomes will eventually come up. Yes, the probability is about 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%, but it is physically possible, and thus infinitely many coin tosses will contain edge landings.

What do you mean, history has proved that these changes are harmful not helpful?

The sky is not a physical object; the way light strikes the earth from the sun, the red light is filtered out, leaving only the blue light to come down to earth (at sunset, the reverse is true).

How do you know predestiny is a fact? And what, you are one of the few people who can understand it? Based on your typing and grammar, that would be surprising.

And if you believe in creationism, you should believe that a supreme being created everything, including time. Which side are you on?...

frodnonnag

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 15-Oct-03 22:27   »» 

for the moth thing i said that there was a variety in species, they all ways had the potential to be black or white, the enviroment changed their necessity on their genes, they are still the same species and if you changed it back they would too. the bible has an example of this, in genesis 30:25 to end

mutations are harmful, here are my examples, cancer, birth defects, and inbreeding and the genetic defects it produces.

i know predestiny is a fact, most or all religions rely on predestnation(christianity included) the bible says that the saved were chosen(predestined) before the earth was even created.
do not judge on the grammar of my post about the knowlede of my lifetime, that is like trying to discribe the earth while looking at a pebble.


with the sky part i was talking about laws, evoluton as a religion/belief uses random/chaos for all of its theorys. that goes against not only basic biblical law but also basic scientific law.

as for god i know he exists, the universe itself cries out his name, the bible teaches his truths and his spirit works within us.

evilgoatfiend

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 16-Oct-03 00:12   »» 
First of all we're dealing with adaption not mutation, two seperate things. But at any rate, despite how unlikely it could potentially be in your eyes, as long as it is the slightest possible, then it could be the answer. Because we already know that it succeded so any improbability only causes someone to favor one theory over another. However your own arguement is turned against you because your theory, being the literal interpritation of The Bible, is impossible. Th easiest of all flaws, is that it say the world was created in 6 days, and that the Earth, the Universe, and Life were all created within that span. Impossible even if all particles moved at lightspeed since their creation to get into place as they currently are today. Also everything on Earth would fry up, and Pangea would be impossible. So in order to explain to mortals that can't comprehend such long spans of time, he used the analogy "day". 6 periods of equal length could possibly fit His description of God-days. Furthermore, back to evolution, The Bible says that adam was molded out of the clay of tthe Earth, that in metaphor itself points to evolution. There is a coexistantce between evo and crea and it is blasphemy to proclaim that His analogies and metaphors have more power then the evidence in the world He created. Read my past posts if you don't believe in a middleground, in the end it comes down to faith and what you believe.

Blueyoshi321

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 16-Oct-03 00:27   »» 
Again, people are saying, "Well, it's true because the Bible said so."
"I know predestiny is a fact, most or all religions rely on predestination.."
"As for god I know he exists, the universe itself cries out his name, the bible teaches his truths and his spirit works within us."
How does the universe cry out his name?
What is so great about the Bible? (sorry if that sounded blasphemous, I don't want to be impolite, but...)
How do you know "his spirit works within us"?

Blueyoshi321

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 16-Oct-03 00:39   »» 
"If the typical mutation were deleterious life would go extinct in short order. "

www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mutations.html

Okay, so randomness goes against biblical theories. That's what I want, isn't it? Now explain how it violates basic scientific theory.

If you think the laws of physics shouldn't remain laws, why are you here at SodaPlay, a physics simulator?

frodnonnag

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Re: Evo, vs crea,   posted: 16-Oct-03 14:34   »» 
Yoshi, I never said physic laws shouldn’t exist, I said that the laws (imperfect as they are, meaning nothing we do compared to god is perfect) point to an ordered creation, randomness cannot create order, and chaos cannot give laws. It’s a fact.

And life is going extinct in short order, the universe itself is dieing and what we are doing to this planet is causing it to die. Pollution, disease, death, it has all risen dramatically compared to biblical times. the length of time "short order" cannot be standardized the opinion is different for each person.

I do not hate you for your question I applaud you for your quest for the truth.

The bible states basic scientific laws in it before they were ever comprehended by man, pi, the layout of the solar system, the fact that the universe is winding down, the lifespan of man, and other things.



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