This is an archive of a previous version of Sodarace.

Please visit http://sodarace.net for the latest version.

forum  |  »» sodaplay
 
»» forums  »» artificial intelligence forum

subject: Ahem!

14 replies on 1 page. most recent reply: 04-Jul-03 12:49 by hughes

»» back to topic list  

This topic has 14 replies on 1 page
»» previous topic   »» next topic  


IAteYerCat

»» models

Ahem!   posted: 04-Jun-02 00:12   »» 
Your attention! How will this work? 1. Will there be scheduled races, where you sign up, or 2. will there be a "RACE NOW" button on the bottom. I think the 1st one would be much better, as being on the forums, I see noone around. Maybe because it is late in the UK, I live in the US. Scheduled races would be much more organized, as you will know when to race, but different timezones make it harder for two people on different countries to make a time that will fit them both easily. Can anyone explain this to me how it will work?



ed

»» models
»» homepage

Re: Ahem!   posted: 05-Jun-02 09:18   »» 
By far the most straightforward way to build sodarace would be based on timetrials. Models would earn their place in the sodarace league by being submitted for a timed simulation run over a particular terrain. Any user [or AI] could run a time trial race at any time, or re-run time trials to view previous races.

I see from postings here and there in the forum that a lot of people have a more event based synchronous race in mind. This could certainly have entertainment value, people like the excitment of live, head to head competitions. However it's harder to imagine how to make that work in practice. The problem you highlight of needing racers to be present at the same time across the globe to initiate races is on very real constraint that makes synchronous multi user races very problematic indeed. Typically we simply can't rely on having lots of users present simulataneously, and users would find themselves either with no competitors or with frastratingly long waits for other competitors to ready themselves at the starting line. Independant time trials would remove all these problems.

The need for independantly run time trials becomes further aparent when you consider the requirements of AI entrants. Many AI's are likely to be computer programs that create thousands of slightly varied models which are modified in response to their performance in a "fitness test".

For example, an AI might make a hundred random models and enter them all in time trials. Based on the individual results of those 100 time trials it may then discard the 90 slowest models and replace them with random variations of the 10 fastest models. It may then repeat this process for thousands of generations, slowly optomising the fastest model by exploiting advantagous random pertubations.

I welcome suggestions how sychronous scheduled races could work for both human model makers across the world and AI algorithms, but to my mind time trials would seem to work much better.

Lectvay

»» models
»» homepage

Re: Ahem!   posted: 05-Jun-02 17:18   »» 
Like most people, when I first heard about Sodarace I envisioned two models on the same screen making their way across terrain in real time. But I am no less excited about the more realistic idea of individually run time-trials.

Here's an example of what I could see working. Let's say that on October 1, Ed officially begins a race. This means that an official terrain is available, and makers must use it to make their models. Then, for the next two weeks, anyone is allowed to submit a model, and each time they submit a model it replaces their last submission. For these two weeks, a leaderboard would be available, showing the rankings of usernames and their respective times. Links to the models would not be available. Then, on October 14, whoever is in first place is declared the winner, and that leaderboard would now, in addition to username and time, have links to all the models that were used.

I think this would first of all be fair, competitive and work well in general. Second, for the two weeks that the race was running, it would be pretty secretive and mysterious in a fun sort of way, as no one has any clue what types of strategies anyone is using. And the best part comes at the end, when everyone can look at what everyone else came up with, and discover perhaps that the best models were all very similar, or maybe discover that there were many very different types of models that all did well.

guest: null
Re: Ahem!   posted: 05-Jun-02 17:43   »» 
an option could be that for each time trial that is run by any particular uses there would be an icon on the screen indicating the progress of the 'best so far' ie the current leader in the league. This gives some excitment to viewing the race, but also some mystey as to what the fastest machine looks like (to be revealed at the end or the defined race period) It could also be applied to other types of races, an icon indicating furthest throw, greatest height reached etc

guest
Re: Ahem!   posted: 11-Jun-02 00:15   »» 
How about also being able to import other peoples models along with your own into a terrain to race just for fun? Nothing official since the other person wouldn't be able to see it, just to see how you models compare to others in terms of speed, stability, etc.

stevem

»» models

Re: Ahem!   posted: 13-Jun-02 08:23   »» 
> How about also being able to import other peoples
> models along with your own into a terrain to race
> just for fun? Nothing official since the other person
> wouldn't be able to see it, just to see how you
> models compare to others in terms of speed,
> stability, etc.

I think this is a good idea. If my model makes it through to the last 16 (not likely, but a guy can dream), then I'd like to watch a race between my model and each of the others, in turn, realtime, just for fun. Certainly I hope there will be some facility to watch ones models negotiating the terrains on-screen! I appreciate none of these runs could be official, but there's something about watching these models which is essential to the fun of it.

Lectvay

»» models
»» homepage

Re: Ahem!   posted: 14-Jun-02 20:49   »» 
Absolutely! It would be great to watch your own creations race realtime against any model you choose. In addition to fun, it would be helpful to see exactly where different strategies fall short of each other, as far as terrain goes. For example, you could watch two models race neck to neck for some time, until that big mountain comes up, and then watch your ingenious racer leave the other, less-versatile one in the dust.

guest: sourdog
Re: Ahem!   posted: 27-Jun-02 18:59   »» 
when is the sodarace

steve1331

»» models
»» homepage

Re: Ahem!   posted: 28-Jun-02 01:52   »» 
the sodarace will begin WINTER 2002 sucks, huh :( but im sure it will b worth the wait!

LaForge

»» models
»» homepage

Re: Ahem!   posted: 18-Jul-02 14:34   »» 
It would b coo lfor a sodacon upgrade just a little thing like terrain to have to play with

steve1331

»» models
»» homepage

Re: Ahem!   posted: 26-Jun-03 02:24   »» 
> It would b coo lfor a sodacon upgrade just a little
> thing like terrain to have to play with

like bar springs, that's all i ask for! until sodarace and the upgrade comes...

about the racing issue, why don't ya just pre-select a model to race so whenthe race is to take place it can still be live and later you can download it (about 50 kb) or sometin' like that.

neoaetas

»» models
»» homepage

Re: Ahem!   posted: 26-Jun-03 13:51   »» 
did you mean winter 2003, steve? Or was the date set at that time previously (like soda 2.0 was supposed to be out by April or February or something)?

neoaetas

»» models
»» homepage

Re: Ahem!   posted: 26-Jun-03 13:52   »» 
sorry to double post, but i was wondering how you sign in as a guest. Is it still possible or was it through some glitch? I always have to sign in before posting.

steve1331

»» models
»» homepage

Re: Ahem!   posted: 26-Jun-03 19:50   »» 
> did you mean winter 2003, steve? Or was the date set

i don't know, yesterday when i read my post, i saw that i posted it. boy was that a shock. i forgot about it. 8)

hughes

»» models
»» homepage

Re: Ahem!   posted: 04-Jul-03 12:49   »» 
I think you will just race I want to be able to show my findings at my university



This topic has 14 replies on 1 page


»» previous topic   »» next topic  

»» back to topic list  »» top of the page  

PLEASE READ THE FORUM GUIDELINES AND ALWAYS PREVIEW TO CHECK MESSAGES BEFORE POSTING...
...Help keep our forums creative and constructive. Thank you.


»» forum home