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subject: Optimised Dainty Walker

133 replies on 9 pages. most recent reply: 06-May-07 22:48 by scooterboo

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RiMano

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Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 24-Nov-03 10:33   »» 
Hi,

Here's a race of an optimised dainty walker using a searching technique called simulated annealing. Its the the same dainty walker that is part of the original models that you can get from the soda constructor.

Basically simulated annealing is an algorithm for searching solution within a problem, in this case the fastest model, working from a base model. There will be an in-depth explanation about the process, when I eventually get a website going.

I'm also part of a team at Queen Mary, which also includes Chirag. He took the genetic algorithm technique and applied it to amoebas, altough mine sucked compared to his, I can optimise any model with my program, although not as effective as I would like.
His post is here: http://sodarace.net/forum/thread.jsp?forum=16&thread=1639

Hmm, the optimised dainty walker not pretty, but its faster...

race: http://sodarace.net/upload/RiMano/daintyWalkerRace.jnlp



wwan

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Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 24-Nov-03 11:10   »» 
That is what I also found. Breeded models are not pretty but fast.
Please could you give a short explaination what kind of gnetic representation you use to optimize ANY model.
This seems to me one of the key questions for all GAs breeding soda robots.

RiMano

»» models

Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 25-Nov-03 22:26   »» 
Simulated Annealing isn't a GA, so there isn't any genetic representation.

Ok, here's a lengthy explanation.

Basically a simulated annealing technique is similar to a hill-climbing searching algorithm, where you always make a move that would improve the situation. For example, always picking a faster model. However, you may reach a point, where there isn't a move that you can make that improves the situation. This could be the most optimised solution, but it can also be what is called a local maxima, which is like the top of the hill, but not the tallest one.

So basically simulated does basically the same thing, except it picks a move at random. If this move makes the situation better, it is imediately accepted. If it isn't, then there is a possibility of it being accept. This possibility lessens with how bad the move makes the situation. Over a period of time the acceptance of these accepting these worse moves is gradually decreases. Much like the temperature in the actually metal annealing process. Hopefully this should escape local maximas and gradually converge to the global maxima.

So basically when i create my random models to select my move from, I'm basically just changing the values in the model, which is why i need a base model and can optimise any model.

Veret

»» models

Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 26-Nov-03 20:18   »» 
So, like i told chirag, it's basically eDarwin. I'm curious, though: Does your algorithm just take the original dainty and fiddle with G F and K, or does it actually change the model itself? (you probably already explained that, but i didn't get it.)

RiMano

»» models

Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 27-Nov-03 19:22   »» 
Yeah it just changes the values of all the attributes. So the model retains all its nodes, links and structure.

Hence, the reason why i need a base model.

Veret

»» models

Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 29-Nov-03 17:47   »» 
hmm...well, i don't know if he told you, but chirag and i have been having a heated argument over whether computers have the power to create models of their own from scratch. I know you haven't yet, but would it be possible for you to make an algorithm that does that? I've seen one, but all it can really make is a bunch of vibrating sticks.

RiMano

»» models

Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 30-Nov-03 18:38   »» 
I would have to say its possible. First of, the vibrating sticks by wwan is only a very simple models, which I'm sure that he intentionally done. I'm sure that if we put time and effect into programming an amazing algorithm, then it possible to create models that aren't just some vibrating sticks.

Cray_X1

»» models

Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 02-Dec-03 23:38   »» 
Hey, I had an idea.

What if you ran Chirag's fast amoeba throught your program to make it faster? Why not combine the methods?

RiMano

»» models

Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 04-Dec-03 20:41   »» 
Might work, I have to try it out. But his optimisation is pretty good already, so my hopes are not that high.

frodnonnag

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Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 04-Dec-03 20:51   »» 
this random guess thing is a joke, that thing looks like a seizure that twitches into the win, does this program only modify muscle timing and pulse speed or does it change everything? its movement although repeats each time is a mistake of random guessing, that thing is no longer actually walking but the sheer kinetic energy is what is keeping it going.
do all the versions start at the same exact position(as a regular dainty) or does the program redraw them?

StefW

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Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 04-Dec-03 22:00   »» 
I have made a faster dainty walker that also looks better. I wrote a genetic algorithm which can optimise any model. It beats the Simulated Annealing by 36 frames. It took about 15 minutes to optimise the standard dainty walker (and about 15 generations, 1500 evaluations).

race: http://sodarace.net/upload/StefW/daintyrace.jnlp

frodnonnag

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Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 05-Dec-03 00:03   »» 
humans can beat ai, just because we can think, instead of a program that takes a model and randomly changes it millions of times, a human can sit there, think and improve it with only a few generations, the only thing computers have that beat us are the processing speeds at which they carry out tasks.

the_duck

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Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 05-Dec-03 00:47   »» 
frodnonnag:

" its movement although repeats each time is a mistake of random guessing"
You call something that beats a human model by a factor of 3 a mistake?!

"that thing is no longer actually walking but the sheer kinetic energy is what is keeping it going."
And it got that kinetic energy from its own motions, not from initial conditions.

"humans can beat ai, just because we can think, instead of a program that takes a model and randomly changes it millions of times, a human can sit there, think and improve it with only a few generations, the only thing computers have that beat us are the processing speeds at which they carry out tasks."
Lets see you improve the daintywalker and beat the ai.

Why do you feel the need to attack AI? Are you insecure? Do you see it as evidence of evolution and so must squash it? Why?

StefW

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Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 05-Dec-03 11:32   »» 
After running the opimization a bit longer, it's now down to 380 frames. It's not pretty but it's fast!

race: http://sodarace.net/upload/StefW/daintyrace.jnlp

Lectvay

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Re: Optimised Dainty Walker   posted: 05-Dec-03 13:47   »» 
Interestingly enough, I think the 380 version is a lot prettier.



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